Making Room by Gather
Hospitality. What do you think of when you hear that word?
For some it's old school 'stuffy' entertaining for others it's something to do with the hotel industry. One thing is for sure, as a culture we're not talking about it much.
Food * Design * Relationships have seemed to have taken a back seat to what our culture focuses on and values yet...we find ourselves in the midst of a loneliness epidemic. Something has to change, it's time to get back to our tables, and we're making room for it!
Making Room by Gather invites you into a new conversation on everyday hospitality. One that rewrites the way we approach opening your doors and filling your tables. Shifting the narrative from 'how does this make me look' to 'how does this make you feel' these buildable conversations aspire to inspire connection through everyday gathering.
Kayty's chic and a little quirky interview style will make you feel like you're sitting with a friend talking about how to grow in confidence as an everyday host. You can expect conversations from navigating challenging relationship dynamics to foundational cooking techniques and everything in between.
Whether you are a seasoned host or looking to develop new friendships and grow in your skills for the first time, there is a seat at the table. Join us weekly for new conversations with expert guests and with Kayty in her beloved Date with Kayt episodes. Continue the conversation @gatheritentionalliving
Making Room by Gather
The Unstoppable Journey: From Childhood Outsider to Leading in London's Food Scene w/ Asma Khan
London, Indian Food, Entrepreneurship. Upon learning about Asma Kahn, I knew that there would be a lot I'd love about her story. What I didn't expect was that through learning more about her, she would quickly become one my industry hero's and greatest inspirations.
The moment Asma Khan starts speaking about her childhood in India, you're transported to a world of cricket games in the streets, wedding celebrations spanning entire months, and kitchens filled with the layered aromas of spices. But beneath this lies a powerful story of transformation that has earned her recognition as one of Time Magazine's 100 Most Influential People of 2024.
She shares about how being no one's favorite as a child fueled her to not just succeed, but invite others to use their stories as a catapult, in the same way.
Her Michelin Guide-nominated restaurant defied every industry expectation with its all-female kitchen staffed by mothers and grandmothers without formal culinary training. Critics predicted failure, but what emerged was a celebration of authentic home cooking that attracts Hollywood A-listers while maintaining an unwavering commitment to social causes.
Whether discussing her new cookbook "Monsoon," debunking myths about "authentic" Indian cuisine, or sharing wisdom about pushing through the darkest moments of entrepreneurship, Asma offers a masterclass in courage and conviction. Follow her journey on Instagram @asmakhanlondon and discover why her story resonates with anyone who has ever felt like they don't belong.
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If you talk to me for just a few minutes, you will learn two things One, that my recent obsession is the Peloton, and two, that I love talking all things about the royal family. With that we came to learn about our new guest and our new friend to the show, asma, and very quickly there were a few things that stood out about her. The first the absolute stunning design of her cookbook. It totally took my breath away. And the second were her career achievements, and I don't take that lightly. I was inspired by her simply by reading her bio, and it just grew from there. Guys, I didn't know exactly what to expect in this conversation. I knew that I would enjoy it, but I didn't know that it was going to change my life. There are a few people in my career that I feel are heroes in the industry or deeply inspiring to me, and after this conversation and after learning more about her, asma is one of them for me. If she is new to you, here is a little bit more about her as you get to know her.
Speaker 1:A force in London's culinary scene and an outspoken activist. Indian-born British restaurateur, asma Khan has always been a disruptor. Her Michelin Guide-nominated restaurant, best known for its revolutionary, all-female kitchen has become a favorite of Hollywood A-listers, while being an oasis and a safe place for women Through serving authentic homestyle food. In the heart of London, her restaurant has reached to the top of the food scene, while at its core retaining Khan's unwavering commitment to grassroots social and environmental causes. Time magazine recognized her as one of 2024's 100 most influential people in the world for her pioneering business ethos. She is the chef advocate for the UN World Food Program and a member of the Mayor of London's Business Advisory Board. Khan has been awarded honorary fellowships by Queen's College, oxford University and a fellowship at King's College London, where she also holds a PhD in British constitutional law. Khan was the first British chef to be profiled by Netflix's Emmy-nominated Chef's Table and has appeared in shows such as Celebrity, masterchef and Top Chef. She's currently working on Tiffin Stories, a six-part series on food and memories. Asma is an award-winning cookbook author. Her third cookbook, monsoon, due to reach actually, as we're reading this, it is officially live now. It is on the market, ready for you to get your copy of it In 2025,.
Speaker 1:Khan became I want to make sure I'm saying this right Sodexo Stop Hunger Foundation's first patron. You are going to absolutely adore her as much as I did. I cannot wait to give you this conversation, but before we do, I have to tell you about something that I have been absolutely loving lately. So you guys know most of you know if you're a longtime listener of the show I am working from home, working on the podcast, watching Wesley, kind of all at the same time, and it feels like my days start to kind of blur my habits, blur. It all just kind of meshes together and I have been trying to be more intentional about taking moments of rest for myself, of taking care for myself uh, taking care of myself so I could feel just a little bit better in my skin and a little bit more rejuvenated throughout the day.
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Speaker 2:Hi, I'm.
Speaker 1:Katie, a hospitality educator and the host of Making Room by Gather podcast. I am set to see our communities get back to the table through hospitality, but it wasn't always this way. My husband and I moved to Thailand and through it I experienced some loneliness and with it I was given a choice to sit back and accept it or to do something about it, and for me that meant two things that I needed the healing to learn how to accept an invitation and the confidence to know how to extend one. Through this process, I developed some of the richest and deepest relationships of my life. Through Making Room by Gather, you will hear conversations from myself and experts in the areas of food, design and relationships. You see there are countless things trying to keep us from the table, but can I tell you something? Take a seat because you are ready, you are capable, you are a good host.
Speaker 3:Okay, my goodness, I have been so excited for this conversation. I'm a bit of a London enthusiast, a UK enthusiast. I have yet to go. I've spent quite a bit of time in Europe. I've been to France and Spain, italy, but I haven't made my way to the UK yet and you were calling in from there. So I'm a little bit, a little bit jealous, but so glad that you're here, that you're here.
Speaker 2:Thank you, and you need to come to London. London has. It's just a buzzing place. I mean, if weather is not the thing for you.
Speaker 3:Everything else is fabulous in this place. How, how common like how often is it rainy? Is that just a daily part of life?
Speaker 2:No, it's not that bad.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:It doesn't rain all the time, but it's just very random. It rains and it doesn't rain like down. So you've had an umbrella, you're still soaked because the rain is like coming at an angle. It's very cold rain as well, and also because I compared to the rain that we have where I grew up in India. The rain here is like a cold shower. It's always cold, Even in summer. The rain feels cold.
Speaker 3:It's funny I should know to talk about this later. We lived in Thailand for a while, so we had a monsoon season in Thailand, and so it's like you went from one monsoon to another.
Speaker 2:Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 3:Well, I might add little snippets of London questions throughout our conversation, but I want to start off by getting to know you a little bit better. Your background is so oh my gosh so dynamic. You have so many different parts of your career that I'd love to cover, but first let's talk about a little bit of your childhood in India. We've yet to have a guest raised in India, and so I want to hear from you whatever you want us to know about. What role did life in India play with your career in?
Speaker 2:food. India is fundamental to who I am the food I cook, the way I speak, and also it is like where I get all my nourishment from, for everything I do. So even though I'm oceans away. My childhood was so incredible that everything that I'm doing today is because of the way that I was raised and the city where I grew up. I think India is probably a changed place today from the time that I was growing up.
Speaker 2:I grew up in an India where there was no mobile phones, no television. You got very little cinema that you could go and see. There was, of course, bollywood, which is our local cinema, which was great and exciting, but at least in Bengal we didn't get to see a lot of Hollywood. And that actually was the most beautiful way to grow up, because we played on the streets. I love cricket. I was allowed to play on the streets with strangers, which is interesting because people are quite strict about who you can go out with and meet and play with, and there were lots of boys, who were all from all kinds of backgrounds, asked to play cricket. And I went to the most incredible school, which no one asked you who your father was. They didn't ask you what your background was. So it was a school where we all went wearing uniform and there was no way of showing whether you were wealthy, whether you were poor. We were all in there and we were trying to learn.
Speaker 2:I know that I'm probably describing an ideal world.
Speaker 2:I also know that that world no longer exists, but my childhood was very, very carefree, full of food and laughter, incredible monsoons, but also a lot of poetry and music and fragrance of flowers, that I remember Every kind of occasion and festivities, that there were always flowers.
Speaker 2:And if anyone has seen even a video clip of an Indian wedding, I come from a huge clan, so entire December from my childhood, four people were getting married, so you went from one henna night to a singing night, to a actual wedding. So, yeah, that my childhood was like a dream come true, because it was all full of just a lot of food and a lot of very nice. You know, I mean my entire kind of all my cousins I was very close to, so a lot of solidarity among my cousins. Not so great when it came to the adults, who I was nobody's favorite, but that's all right, you can't have everything and I think that I was always the outsider, for the kind of the adults and the powerful people always felt that I was not someone who fit it in. I probably didn't fit in, but I saw beauty in everything and I loved the food.
Speaker 3:Well, asma, I was going to take this in another direction, but I want to play off of that comment that you just made that you were no one's favorite. What role do you think that played in your adulthood, now and your career? Do you think that it impacted it or affected it? Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:It is the fire to push myself to do something, to break barriers and also to be brave enough to do what I did without fear to go into an industry where you didn't see anyone like me at all. I'm talking about, you know, 10 years ago. No one looked like me, no one sounded like me, no one had a name like me. I'm a Muslim immigrant. I'm in my 40s. When I went to the bank to borrow money to open a tea shop below my house, they laughed at me and said what a lovely hobby, mrs Khan, I will never get. I cried all the way home and I swore that day I will become the name that every woman can say In her 40s.
Speaker 2:I was told to stay in my lane, but this I remember from my childhood. I was told to stay in my lane because people always saw me as the outsider not quite fitting in with this beautiful, fair, slim, princess kind of look that all my cousins had. I stood out so much because of the way I looked and what my interests were. I hated dressing up. I wasn't willing to play princess. Yes, I'm from a royal family, but I didn't want to play princess. I should have been allowed to.
Speaker 2:You know I want and I my entire childhood I wanted to be a pirate. You know I want and I my entire childhood I wanted to be a pirate. I wanted to steal from the rich and give to the poor. My dream was to be a pirate. I wanted to sail off into the ocean. So that's not what princesses want to do in my family.
Speaker 2:So I think that being from the, you know, being on the fringes of what was acceptable, I came in again being on the fringes, being an immigrant, being older, not having a godfather in the industry, not going through the ranks and having the network. I was unafraid because that's how I lived my life, being unafraid because I was always the outsider, even in my extended clan, I was never the insider and my childhood gave me the tools to deal with life as I faced it when I came to this country for the first time, and I'm grateful that you shared that part of your story because I think that it's something that a lot of people could say me too and I think that people think it disqualifies them from excellence, from life, from advancement in their career.
Speaker 3:And part of my story is my family moved a lot. I've shared little bits of this. I was bullied ruthlessly and for a period of my life it definitely affected my sense of self-worth it totally did. But then I realized, oh my goodness, that actually, after I've done all the heart work, the healing work you know, to work through it, I realized, wow, I actually could see people in such a new depth than I would have been able to before. I know what people need, and so it ended up being a gift that I didn't necessarily want, but a gift nonetheless, right.
Speaker 2:Um, it does it. I think that the sad thing is that people who went through the bullying that you did, or the kind of marginalization and the uh, the kind of othering that I did, this is happening to girls today, right now, and if we don't speak up, the problem is that they may not be as lucky as you and me to come out of this. We come out of fire glistening like gold. We go through these trials and tribulations and we are victorious, but there are very few of us. It is our moral duty to talk about these things, because you don't know who's listening. You don't know who knows about someone who's going through this fire and they can step in, because it is so important to know that you're not alone and also to understand that what is happening right now is not going to dictate what happens to the rest of your life. You have to find the tools to overcome it.
Speaker 3:I love the way you worded that part. You have to find the tools. It's an active process, right? And so you have to first recognize like wow, I don't want to stay like this forever. And then it requires a step of action, which I often say. It could be clumsy, it could come with a lot of tears, like you were saying that part of your story that you went to the bank to get a loan and you cried on the way home and look at you. Now you know it's, but you have to. You have to recognize like it might be, might come with some growing pains and some right, it could be a little.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is hard and the thing is that you know, for, like you, you've just you know you're talking about how you constantly moved. For me, my move was really significant and, you know, dramatic, it was an uprooting. But even when there are no great moves, even in the on the street on which you were born and you're living and you went to school, you can go through the same feelings that you went, moving around me, moving across oceans. That's the frightening thing that you can still be in your same street and pass every familiar tree and recognize everybody's door and know who everybody is. Yet you can be an outsider.
Speaker 3:Well, I feel like this conversation is going to take a little bit of a different turn, in a good way. Because this conversation is so rich, I guess I'll pull on it just for a second. So you said that you could you know talking about people that are outsiders in their communities. If we are, hmm, what way do I want to take that? I guess, if you are someone that feels like an outsider in your community, what is your encouragement to her? You speak a lot to the heart of women and so I guess, if we're talking to someone today who feels like an outsider and maybe is at the very beginning of recognizing it and taking steps, what do you say to her?
Speaker 2:The first thing I would tell her is that she's good enough. Do not allow someone else to put a badge on you. Do not allow them to put you into a box. Tell yourself you're the captain of your ship, you will sail and you will go where you want. No one gets on your ship and tells you what to do. This is very, very important.
Speaker 2:You write your own story. You are the heroine of your life and the problem is that too many of us don't even articulate. We cannot say it. Go to the mirror and say it to yourself. I am the heroine of my life. I am going to tell my story Because the problem is the moment you allow people to give you the impression that you stay in your lane, that you do not have the right to move lanes, that you're not right At 40, oh, you can't do this.
Speaker 2:I mean really significant women who were in the industry, in hospitality, told me this that, Asma, you're going to fail. You have to have professional male chefs, experienced people, to come in. You cannot run this all-female kitchen with mothers and grandmothers. You are going to fail. In my heart I was screaming I'm going to be victorious. I'm going to win. I will be the greatest there's ever been, Not driven out of arrogance, but I had to tell myself, so I did not crumble. But I had to tell myself, so I did not crumble. It's really important If you don't believe in yourself, why will anyone else believe in you? It's really important to believe.
Speaker 3:When you said not in arrogance. It's so funny. I was just thinking of a comment that I wanted to make when you were finished in that same um, that same track, um, I remember very, very early on when I had this dream for a business that I haven't yet reached you know, I'm still in the process, right and I heard this story of an Olympic marathon runner, and when he got his gold medal, they asked him how does this feel? Does this surprise you? And he said no. He said it doesn't, it doesn't surprise me, something along those lines, because he knew it. That was always the end in sight. He knew that he was always working towards it, right, and so it didn't surprise him. Now, I told a few people that story and I was met with comments like oh, isn't that like prideful, or isn't that arrogance? It's like no, no, no, it's just. I mean, what would you call that? What's the alternative that we're talking about?
Speaker 2:I think that this is a problem, this imposter syndrome that everybody feels that you know a lot of women have who are successful. Whenever anyone asks me, do you have imposter syndrome, I stare at them. I say no, why will I? And this person who said that are you? When they asked him, are you surprised? You got the gold and said no, I'm not.
Speaker 2:The hours of training that person probably went through all the sacrifices they did, from what they eat to not seeing family, to going out and running, whether it was sunshine or rain, the heartbreak and the muscle pain and all the buildup. Four years they have trained for that few seconds on the track and they got the gold. And yes, I absolutely think that person. When they said that I'm not surprised, it is their inner belief, it was the belief of that person who got that gold, not that actual person. And yes, so they're not surprised because you need to imagine yourself victorious.
Speaker 2:I say this to all women when I meet them and they say I want to do this, I think I said just visualize yourself at the very top that you've got there. If you do not visualize it yourself, how are you going to get there? And so when this person probably visualized that gold medal for all the hard, tough training that he did. So, yeah, I don't think it's arrogance, it is, it's a reality and the thing is that almost we are. We are expected not to say these things because it's misunderstood. But we don't see the cross someone is carrying. You don't know the burdens and the hurdles on which they fell and bled those scars that I carry today, despite all my success. It's not that I don't feel the scars. I see them. I feel them. It has been decades. They don't disappear. So it is an emotional thing People should be, I think open-hearted and talk about it.
Speaker 3:I also I don't know if you feel this way too. I've been reflecting on this a lot lately. People love connecting themselves to people and stories once they've arrived at whatever the goal is, but the middle people don't know what to do with. People. Kind of like in the middle right, like there's maybe judgment misunderstanding. Do you feel that way? Do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2:people kind of like in the middle right, Like there's maybe judgment misunderstanding.
Speaker 2:Do you feel that way? Do you know what I'm saying? No, no, absolutely, absolutely. I mean I I lost all the friends that I had in that middle time who were there for me, and suddenly not there for me, this struggling period of of being incomplete because you haven't got there.
Speaker 2:I used to be very inspired by what my father used to tell me. He used to take me to the balcony and the roof, wherever, depending on the weather, and he used to make me listen to the birds before dawn and he told me Asma, you are that bird. You are telling everybody dawn is coming, in absolute, total darkness. That bird was singing and telling you about light. That middle stage that you described is that. But as you and I both know, and as everybody knows, day will always follow night. You must believe that day will come, but that complete darkness before that light comes, I think women who have made it if it is a colleague of yours or someone in your family or friend, be that bird, tell them, sing to them, tell them about light.
Speaker 2:And the problem is that that middle stage where you are not you started something but you haven't made it is the darkest, hardest part, and I'm so glad you raised this, because no one wants to talk about it. They all want to talk about your success and they want to talk about you. Know why did you have this idea? What is your kind of? And everybody's talking to these kids who want to be techie and want to do stuff, but this in-between hard grind of nothingness, of darkness, it's as if it doesn't exist. But most of our success is because we handle that darkness. We handle that nothingness in our lives and that's how we got out into the light.
Speaker 3:It's not the attractive part of the dreaming, creative entrepreneur conversation, right.
Speaker 2:No, it's because there's no glory in it, there's no story in it and this is like it's not attractive, it's not exciting. And also I think that unfortunately for women and a lot of women, this is the part where they can't communicate with each other, with other people. There's no mentoring and there's no support in that very difficult stage and this is. I do a lot of this work with a lot of women in food. I have an open door and I reply to all my DMs on my social media. I reply to women, and a lot of them practically from around the world. I take the time because I understand this is their darkness. They're waiting for their dawn. I'll be their friend, I'll be the bird for them at that point. I do a lot of it, but I think all of us should be doing it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, wow, my goodness, I'm just thinking through that. It's a rare gift and so beautiful that you I don't know give so much of your time to that and to those women. I don't want to make it about me, but you were talking about how your father put you on the balcony listening to the birds. My grandpa had a, so we lived with him for quite a few years of my life and in the morning we'd be sitting and having breakfast before I went to school, and I'm totally going to butcher it. But he would say this Italian phrase like e solo muoiesh, and it meant the sun's. He said, look, catalina, e solo muoiesh. I'm mixing up my words, but, catalina, the sun's coming up, the sun's coming up, and I would get so frustrated with him. I was like, of course, none of the sun's coming up. I know it's coming up, but I realized later in life what he was telling me. He would say, despite, everything else going on.
Speaker 3:the sun's coming up. Look, it's a new day.
Speaker 2:It's a new day, no, and this is what your grandfather, my father, this kind of souls of wisdom are so important. But not everybody has the good fortune. You could sit with your grandfather and have breakfast, I could sit and talk to my father, but for those who do not have anyone around them, who is that kind of that mentor, the anchor? It's tough.
Speaker 3:We've talked a little bit about mentorship on this show and how to be mentored, how to find a mentor. Your perspective, I think, is a little bit unique with identifying people in this kind of like messy middle gray area. So if you are someone, maybe in seasons like you or I, who understand what that's like, who understand that, how can we be that for other people? Do you have? Like, how could we replicate that in our own communities?
Speaker 2:I think you know there's no correct way and there's no kind of, and I think that it's a learning process. But as long as you try, you know. I think that that's the biggest thing that you can learn along the way. I know I've made lots of mistakes along my way. Somehow or the other I've still succeeded. It's not that I got everything perfect. I failed, I made bad choices, I suffered. We all went through COVID for a restauranteur. It destroyed me.
Speaker 2:But I think that it's a process of actually, first of all, forgiving yourself and coming to peace with who you are. Only then can you be of help to others. I think that's really important, for if you really want to be someone who can support others, I think you need to be very, very clear of where you are in life, who you are. Make peace with everything that's gone wrong in your life. Then you are able to become. Your shoulders are big enough to carry people through.
Speaker 2:Till you are not at that point, I think that you you can try, but you may not be as effective. I'm not saying that women who not got their house in order cannot do it, but I'm just thinking that those that have even more important for them step up because you've sorted out things in your own life. You emotionally now mature and and emotional maturity is nothing to do with age. Yeah, you know, I've talked to some very young kids who've, you know, given me some really important lessons in life, and I think that that it's really that that I think that's just my opinion. I think that you need to be stable inside you to be able to carry the burdens of others and their grief.
Speaker 3:Powerful perspectives. I had a pastor at a church that I went to as a young kid that always told us to lead in our relationships with our scars, yeah, and there's a connection that happens there and a relatability, and so I think it's beautiful. It's beautiful what you offer and you bring to the table. Well, we're going to shift this conversation just for a second. I think we're going to kind of like ebb and flow from like the heartfelt to the food scene, which I love. If you were to talk to me for 15 minutes, that's what you'd get anyways. We'd get heartfelt and food in every conversation I have, and so I feel like the British food scene gets a bit of a bad rap.
Speaker 3:I feel like in America at least, you talk about England, UK, whatever, and all you hear is like bangers and mash and that's all. It is potatoes and sausage. But you provide such a fresh I don't know offer to the scene. But to start, I would love to hear from you what do you wish people knew about? The reality of the food scene in the UK?
Speaker 2:The reality of the food scene in England is not just bangers and mash. That is also there Because of colonialism and the history of the spice trade and everything that happened. What you get in England, especially what you get in London, is the most incredible array of food of people of different ethnicities, absolutely fabulouson is definitely the food capital of the world because from indian to chinese to japanese and you know, from even kind of really kind of regional cuisines, you get all of this because we've had people from everywhere settled here. And everyone's favorite in this country I mean it's not a dish that I make or recognize chicken tikka masala. Of course you know this is a British dish, I mean it is. You know chicken tikka masala came up in this country. We don't even have it in India. We don't know what it is. So it was literally a dish that was developed in this country.
Speaker 2:And you know I think that's what's so exciting about London that on the same street the kind of variety of food you get and the quality of the food you get is at a different level, and you know. So even things like you know most people don't know there's a restaurant on Edgeware Road. It's called Hijazi Corner. It has the only Saudi restaurant. You've got Afghan food, you've cantonese food in chinatown. Then you have a two michelin star chinese place, uh called you know it's avon, where chinese food is taken to a level which is just mind-blowing. So from really high, fine dining of of ethnic food to really kind of soul satisfying you know food that you know you can go to an Afghan place hole in the wall and just get the most beautiful food, london is the most exciting place to come if you love food.
Speaker 3:I you are the first person I've ever like. I'm so thankful for that fresh perspective.
Speaker 2:That's so, that's so exciting and that sounds like my scene, my goodness, yeah, and and the great thing is that london is not it's sprawling, but it's not it's you can actually get around. You know, we don't drive a lot. I'll be used public transport. Everything is accessible everywhere you can go and you can literally eat the world in the city.
Speaker 3:That sounds like incredible content to capture. I'm just picturing a video eating my way through one. That sounds incredible. I know that everyone there's different perceptions around, like Meghan Markle and her influence in the community, but she was my first exposure the cookbook that she came out with, um to the diverse, diverse food scene. Um, but yeah, that's so. That's so exciting, goodness. Um, this is also silly and I live in a very, very small house right now, and so I have my Peloton bike behind me and I take I take a lot of the Peloton UK classes. Do you know where the studio is? Have you seen it? I take a lot of the Peloton UK classes. Do you know where the studio is?
Speaker 2:Have you seen it? I think yes, it's in Covent Garden right.
Speaker 3:I'm not sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think there used to be one in Covent Garden.
Speaker 3:Is that close to it?
Speaker 2:I had moved to Covent Garden during COVID, so that's what I thought. I think that there was a studio there Is that close to the food scene at all? Yes, of course it's at the very heart of the river there as well, but London, you don't need to go far, there's exciting food in every corner I'm picturing.
Speaker 3:I'm like, okay, I can come, I could take a Peloton class shower up, eat my way through yeah yeah, and then go back to have another class so you can eat literally anything and everything you want, oh, my goodness.
Speaker 3:Well, let's talk about your restaurant. So you referenced this a little bit earlier and I knew what you were talking about because I've learned about you, but I know listeners your story might be new to them. So I love people that live life on purpose. I love intentionality, I love people that are charting a new path in their industries and in their lives, their homes, and this is very much how you run your business and your team. So I would love to know well, actually, I think it's important to say this because this was this is not a small acknowledgement so you were listed as one of Time Magazine's most influential people, which I wanted to celebrate, because since I was a little kid, I remember I was like I want to be on the 30 under 30. That was a big thing for me and whether or not I ever get on that list in my life, I always like to celebrate when people are, because it's a huge accomplishment. But talk to us about your unique approach. What's unique about it in your words?
Speaker 2:Yeah, this times 100,. You know people, not women. And what is exciting was, as a pioneer, that was a category in which I was listed. I am a pioneer because in my restaurant, which is of course female-owned, is an all-female kitchen. We everybody, when they talk about, oh, who's the best cook, my mom or my grandmom? No one looks like a mom or grandmom in the kitchen, especially in Indian food almost completely dominated by men who learned in culinary school. I was unafraid to open a restaurant run by women who didn't go to culinary school. Some didn't even go to school, but they had life experience, they had patience, they had love. The most incredible food came out of my kitchen. We have a small menu. Everything is made fresh.
Speaker 2:I didn't make what is the usual suspects of almost contrived Indian food. It's like saying I'm going to go and have Indian food. It's like saying I'm going to go and have European food. What are you going to have? You're going to have pasta, you're going to have something. India is huge but there's a generic Indian food that was created for convenience. You know bulk cooking, mass cooking.
Speaker 2:Things have changed now very recently, but for a long time people's perception of Indian food was so kind of it was almost kind of monotonous. This is what they thought it was. I was absolutely determined not to bend to all these kind of rules. I opened a restaurant serving home food made all by women. We didn't make our food look French, we didn't make our food look like it was covered with an edible garden, we just served it the way we eat. It would be successful. We were very successful. But then, a few months after we opened, chef's Table came to me and I didn't even you know I was so surprised when they did so. I was the first British chef featured on Chef's Table. This is now six years ago. It changed our lives. It became a game changer. You know, we had everyone from Danny DeVito to Paul Rudd in our restaurant, from Danny DeVito to Paul Rudd in our restaurant, and so it is still a destination place.
Speaker 2:A lot of Americans come. In fact, the sweetest thing is when you see delighted people coming because their partner has surprised them by flying them in from New York for lunch at our restaurant. It's still something that you say wow, people come here. People come there to get engaged, so because the story resonates with a lot of women and men. So it's not an us and them situation. It is anyone who has ever been on the outside and been marginalized for whatever reason, from your, you know, from your gender to your sexuality, to your working class background, to any of these things and your ethnicity, your religion, any of these things and your ethnicity, your religion, any of these reasons that made you feel like you didn't belong. I am living proof that you can be victorious. And that's what my restaurant is. It radiates Shakti strength of women. There's an open kitchen. You see these grandmothers singing and cooking and they're smiling and they're clapping and they're so happy. It's a place of joy.
Speaker 3:Wow Goodness. Now I'm like how come we're not recording there? That's where I want to be right now. Oh my goodness, wow, wow. Well, I um I wanted to jump back to your chicken tikka masala. That it's not authentic, I had no idea. I very much enjoy that dish. I eat it at least once a month. I love Indian flavor. At least I thought I did. So. What are some of the more common authentic dishes? I've had chicken jalfrezi.
Speaker 2:Yes, and chicken jalfrezi is a British-Indian combination. I mean, I wrote a recipe for this to try and explain to people how it was created in India by the chefs for British families during the British Raj. So when the British were, you know, had colonized India, british families lived and they still had Sunday roast, the leftovers of the Sunday roast. So the chefs would pick out all the meat that was left and then they would fry it with peppers, with chilies and onions and eat it. Over time, as these families got more used to spices, they were very curious to see what these people were eating and it became a dish that came to their table and then became a British Indian restaurant favorite. So almost every restaurant that has Indian food in England you'll have chal pharezi. There. Chal is chili pharezi is fake. It is literally it was leftovers of a roast dinner that was made in a chal pharezi store. So these kind of. It's not that these dishes came from nowhere and are completely, you know, fake, but they didn't originate as an authentic Indian dish. So a lot of the recipes that I do are of our recipes, of my family. There are things that people you know will find familiar. Still, there'll be something unfamiliar in it, but it's a really kind of.
Speaker 2:It's the layering of the spices which has always been what I've written about, and the joy of eating and also being grateful for ingredients. We've all forgotten, you know, whenever a plate of food is put in front of you, I think what people do today is take out their phone and take a picture. We've forgotten to say grace. We've forgotten to give thanks not just for the person who cooked the food, but for the farmer who grew the ingredients. We've we become consumers. For us, food is almost like a right and I think that the privilege that we can eat and there are enough people not eating in the world today, in In our own communities, in our midst. You don't need to cross a country and go somewhere else. In your own space, there are people, there are children who are going to bed hungry. I think you know food is magical. Food is about love, but food is also about reverence to being grateful to the earth, and that's where I come from.
Speaker 3:Wow.
Speaker 2:So if someone is going, so I'm in America. Have you spent much time in the States? I actually don't know. I do travel, I don't spend a lot of time, but yes, I've been in and out quite a lot.
Speaker 3:Okay, so I'm not sure how similar the food scenes, are the offerings, but if someone were to go to an Indian restaurant, maybe in their own community, and order something that were authentic, what would you recommend they order?
Speaker 2:I would really suggest that they order dal, the lentils, but not the black lentils, which is what you get in every restaurant, but the yellow lentils which are like, just so fragrant and healing. That's something that, you know, we do very well. And I love the way that we cook cauliflower. Cauliflower, you know, with any kind of combination. I love potatoes, you know. We, we, I come from Bengal and we do a potato with poppy seeds I've got the recipe in Monsoon but potatoes with anything, even just, you know, even just dried cumin and dried chilies. It's just the way that we eat. Our food is always about layering of spices and that is what makes it really authentic. And, of course, you know, I think parathas are amazing. I love parathas, any kind of paratha, whether it's stuffed or it's plain great way to actually have bread in our cuisine. And, of course, rice. I'm from Bengal. We do rice in many, many ways. And, of course, rice I'm from Bengal, we do rice in many, many ways and every version of rice. I'm grateful for every grain of rice I eat.
Speaker 3:Wow, we learned that in Thailand too, because they're so connected to the farmer. You drive two minutes in any direction and you're seeing a rice farm, a rice field, and so there's a lot of connection. You never leave a grain of rice on your plate. No, you don't. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And the thing that as a child, my mother used to always tell me that you know every grain of rice has your name on it, the farmer when they grew it, and I used to feel that respect that I would never leave rice. Rice is sacred to us and I think that in Monsoon I've written the early bit of the book. It's about small techniques and how you get the most out of every ingredient. That elevates your cooking, because we always try to get as much as we could from what we had. It's a hot country. You can't store stuff, so when you have something small, you treat it with a lot of respect.
Speaker 2:I mean, yes, there were refrigeration, but only for the wealthy for a long time and you know people didn't. There was long power cuts so you don't have electricity so you couldn't refrigerate things. So we used everything up. We didn't have things that we stored in the fridge and use the next day. We never had freezers. When I was growing up, the first time I saw a freezer in Cambridge I thought there was a dead body inside it, because in all the horror movies or in the morgue when you open it someone comes out of it I really thought oh my God, in the kitchen they've got.
Speaker 2:You know, it's like a freezer, like a morgue where you put a whole dead body in it. I'd never seen anything like this, so it's just very different. Growing up in India, I've kept that very true to what I do In my restaurant, in my cookbooks. It's this slow lane, it's this joy and, unlike what a lot of people think that oh my God, there's so many spices. You don't need to get all the spices, even just two spices. You can make the most fabulous food and I teach you how to do it Because I think that's how we eat. You never could keep 10 spices in your house in Calcutta. It's so humid, there are insects and all kinds of things. You never protect it and I think a lot of people who have not been to India don't understand this. Yeah, I've actually.
Speaker 3:I've only tried to make tikka masala one time. Don't understand this. Yeah, I've. Actually, I've only tried to make tikka masala one time and that's the only Indian dish I've tried. But I do, whenever I'm craving it, I go out and I order it.
Speaker 2:Well, if you can make chicken tikka masala. You can literally make anything. Really, the beauty of Indian food. Yes, go and find recipes and embrace them, because this whole the stage process of you know how we cook is very simple. It's really about layering spices and layering flavors at different times and, yes, chicken tikka masala is not what we eat, but similar to that, pretty much similar to that. There are lots of other dishes and you can experiment and try new things.
Speaker 3:I just want to cook with you. That's what I want to do. I want you to teach me. I am very happy to teach you?
Speaker 2:Yes, one day One day.
Speaker 2:Because I understand, I teach in two ways. I have the recipe there, but throughout the recipe in my books, I also am talking to you, I'm holding your hand, I'm telling you what is it that you're looking out for? That the oil is going to get there. This is the aroma that's coming out of that, because you must cook with more than one sense. You're not just reading and cooking. You've got to be able to get the aroma, the sound, the taste, the layering that you adjust that dish to your taste, so that everything comes alive and your palate is alive and joyous. It's really important to be happy when you're cooking.
Speaker 3:That's good. I think a lot of people feel frustrated that they're not better cooks but they resort to a lot of prepared foods and they miss cooking with all of their senses. And that's where you learn. That's where you learn We've heard that a lot from past guests that you know parents of some of our guests when they were younger, having them taste recipes and say what is this missing? You know like, smell it, what is it missing? Taste it, what is it missing?
Speaker 2:And that's what I'm hearing from you as well, smell it what is it missing?
Speaker 2:Taste it. What is it missing? And that's what I'm hearing from you as well. Yeah, no, this is critical.
Speaker 2:This is how even though, when I came to this country, I had no idea how to cook, but I had spent my entire childhood in the kitchen and I was constantly made to taste things. When I went home, within one summer, I was cooking everything, because I knew what every dish required, because I tasted it. When it was not complete, I knew how to complete it. I knew that touch of salt, the touch of sugar, the little bit of something else, the squeeze of lime, what is it that needs that extra layering of spice, the final layering. I understood, because till that final layering, I often was made to taste things Like how does this taste? Is there enough salt or is there enough sugar if it's a dessert?
Speaker 2:And this is such a gift. You know, and I know we all have busy lives, but if you can gift your children anything, gift them the memories of being in kitchen with you, with mom and dad or grandparents or whoever it is, this is a gift you're giving them forever. Don't even think of it. As you know, we need some family time or whatever. This is a life gift.
Speaker 2:When you take your child into the kitchen and you cook with them, that little bit of time that you spend with them, they will remember this. They will recreate those dishes long after you're gone, and that is so important. And it's not morbid to talk about that, because I think that what parents can do, it's not just that you give them enough money for their trust fund and pay for their education. The legacy you give them also is about the food of their grandparents, the stories of the food eaten in your family. That is also an important part of the legacy the food legacy. Food eaten in your family that is also an important part of the legacy the food legacy. Don't just leave them a trust fund. Teach them about food.
Speaker 3:I feel like we could just press end on the record and leave on that. That was so powerful. It's such a eye-opener for people and it's anti-cultural. It's against the message that culture is saying. But I think it's an important and a timely one, because our families are in a state of crisis. A little bit the modern-day family, our relationships are when it comes to connection and loneliness, and I think that's an answer in so many ways of crisis. A little bit the modern day family, our relationships are when it comes to connection and loneliness, and I think that's an answer in so many ways right, yes, and I think food is a language of love.
Speaker 2:It's the most personal thing that you can do for someone, and the you know I often say this to people who are like, oh, I don't want to cook and it takes too much time. I think just imagine that the most valuable ingredient you're putting into a dish is your time, your touch, your sensibility, your emotion. Yeah, that is priceless. Every ingredient you can buy there's a price to every ingredient. There's a price tag on it, but not for you. What a beautiful thing you can do for someone. And I also tell everybody cook for yourself. What a beautiful thing you can do for someone. And I also tell everybody cook for yourself. I do this as well. If I'm alone, I'll open a box of cereal and eat it, just without milk, but just open it and eat it Because I think, oh, why should I bother about myself? Now, I don't. I understand that we don't even invest in our own self, we don't even heal ourselves. Why are you not good enough? You are enough, you are enough. Cook for yourself, if it's the simplest thing. You know, in Monsoon I have a dish which is an omelet curry. It's just omelet and then cooked in this beautiful healing gravy. That's it. If you don't have anything else in your house, you've got omelets. Just make that. It takes a few minutes. Do this to yourself, do this for yourself, because we have forgotten in the East, food was medicine. That's how everything that they ate in our ancestors were all about. How good is this for me? Is it going to heal?
Speaker 2:We eat seasonally, you know, during winter you have things that warm your body. During summer, you have things that are light and easy to digest. Everything was about your body and helping your body and nourishment. It was all about nourishing your body, healing your body. Today, it's all about impressing people and what is trendy, and this is like the most kind of Instagrammable something and some of it.
Speaker 2:You look at it and think, wow, you know, this looks great, but why will you eat it? It doesn't make sense, you don't know. Because it's just that today we value different things and, yes, there's a place for, you know, outrageous things and there's a place for experimental. So I'm not that kind of person who will think, oh, you know outrageous things and there's place for experimental. So I'm not that kind of person who think, oh, you know, I don't want to. I want to be like cooking like their grandmother. No, we've all moved on. The world is different, but there are things. You don't throw the baby out with the bath water just because you moved on and there are different cooking techniques and different ingredients. I think there's still some value in the history of the food of your own family. You should not lose that.
Speaker 3:So much to consider there, and I think it's a very timely message in culture. Right now we're speaking the same language, because I really believe that food should be celebrated, that we need to return to slow food instead of fast food, and I mean that in the way that we prepare it like slow cooking technique.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I really do believe that food is medicine. I think that as a culture we're shifting back in that direction. We've lost. We lost it for a while, but there's a lot of empower. I mean talk about empowerment. There's a lot of empowerment there that that food is. Food can be medicine. If we take the freighted vegetables because some customer wants it.
Speaker 2:The customer is not always right If you do not. Most of what we have on our menu is local local in England, but also what we can get from Europe which is not crossing oceans, and it is beautiful food. What is seasonal, what is local, has almost a sweetness hard to describe, but there is a sweetness. And I'm not doing fusion food. I'm doing very traditional Indian food. I'm using ingredients and I plan my menu based on what is seasonal, what can I get close by, and it's not a compromise. It actually liberates me from thinking that something has.
Speaker 2:I know there's no trickle-down effect for farmers. My father is a farmer. I know what's happening. I'm happy that there's a local farmer. Someone is benefiting on the land where my restaurant is being local. This has now become a trendy thing about the terrier and you're talking about local food. It's our moral responsibility. When your money is coming from the land where you are, please make sure your ingredients do too, that the farmer is benefiting too, Because don't think the farmer oceans away is benefiting. Many middlemen are benefiting, Usually men who are benefiting, and it's not the farmer. The farmer doesn't benefit. So I think we also have a moral duty and a responsibility when we eat and I don't think if every household made some small changes to the way they eat, the ripple effect will be huge. Where it's come from, that has not flown in from Peru. Why do I want to eat out of season you know asparagus when British asparagus in season is amazing? Let me wait. Let me learn again how to wait for a produce to be available because of the season. Let me teach myself patience.
Speaker 3:It's something that I think the modern day shopper, consumer, doesn't even think about, because we've been so removed from that way of life for so long. Yeah, and everything is cling firmed.
Speaker 2:I think 30, 35 years ago, when I came to this country, I was so shocked when I saw a bunch of bananas and someone had put a sticker on each banana. Bananas grow in our backyard in India. I was staring and thinking, wow, someone has there's a name of a company on each banana. Bananas grow in our backyard in India. I was staring and thinking, wow, someone has there's a name of a company on each each banana had a sticker on it. My mind was blown. I couldn't believe. This is how, then, everything was wrapped and everything looks so beautiful. It was as if you know, you don't want to cook anything. Nothing. Everything was so perfect. It felt like everything was fake. It's like the kind of play food that I used to see, you know, in a shop. Food looked like play food because everything was shiny and glinting and perfect.
Speaker 3:I feel like that's a whole other conversation. Huh the reality of the food in our grocery stores, wow. Well, I want to very quickly pivot and talk about the upcoming release of your new book. You've referenced it a few times. Monsoon, when I was first sent the book, I said I feel like this book should come with a shelf because it is so beautiful. I think it needs to be on display all the time. Thank, you.
Speaker 2:I love it. I love the color.
Speaker 3:It's stunning and everything about it. I'm very much a design person. I love design, I love the color.
Speaker 2:It's stunning and everything about it.
Speaker 3:I'm very much a design person. I love design, I love intentionality. I mean the texture of the book, cover the colors, and then you open it up. The photography is stunning, the flavors are inviting, all of it. So what? Maybe did we not talk about that. You want people to know about the book did we not talk about that?
Speaker 2:you want people to know about the book.
Speaker 2:The one thing I want them to know about the monsoon is that it is really a kind of a doorway into the simplicity of flavoring in our food, because often people have this misconception that Indian food is complicated to cook, that there are a lot of things going on.
Speaker 2:Yes, there are a lot of things going on, but there are many dishes that we make which are absolutely delicious, full of flavor, very quick to make and that they're actually good for you. And the fact that I've tried to weave in all these flavors, because in Ayurveda you have all these six things that you want to combine. It's like an orchestra. Each flavor is an instrument, so sweet, sour, savory, bitter all of them combined make a perfect meal. And the book is really a compass on how you get all these things together and I really I hope people will buy the book, cook from the book, and that their world view of Indian food will change, because it really is about how simple our food is, but also how layered and healing and satisfying it is. I'm super excited about the book and, yes, the book looks so beautiful.
Speaker 3:It is, and it's definitely a lot to celebrate for your entire team behind it and we're very excited for you. Can you remind me of the exact date of the launch? I know we're in pre-order right now, but when is the date of?
Speaker 2:the launch in Australia, america, canada, uk all on the same day, just before International Women's Day, and pre-ordering the book really helps the author because that's so important. So if people can pre-order that would be great. But I just hope that people will cook from the book, buy the book and cook for it, because it really is. It just really kind of makes, brings some joy into your kitchen. I think a lot of us have this whole thing of cooking as a chore. I know that's not how you think, but a lot of people see it as something domestic slavery. Oh my God, I've got to cook. Oh my God. It's just an opportunity for you to slow down and do something that will make you happy.
Speaker 3:Your family, your loved one, make them happy. I just wanted for a second. We're going to switch in a minute to I end all of my conversations with the same three questions, but I just wanted to stop and I was just thinking how do you pronounce your name? How do you like it pronounced? Asma, Asma, so little Asma that felt like an outsider and maybe that she didn't have a place. Just told me that she has a book coming out in multiple continents. That is, goodness gracious. What a story. What a story.
Speaker 2:And for anyone who's going through this darkness and being in that difficult space. See, I made it, you're going to make it too.
Speaker 3:Beautiful. Well, thank you for trusting me with your story today. That was a really powerful conversation. I want to end just with some fun questions that we end all of the conversations with, and I'd love to hear your answers too. The first one is something that you have eaten recently and loved.
Speaker 2:I recently had squid in a really kind of small little place in Chinatown and, oh my God. Usually I always think, oh my God, I don't like it. I just loved it Salt and pepper squid. It was so good.
Speaker 3:I've never heard that answer and I've also never personally tried it.
Speaker 2:It's good, okay, I'll take your word for it.
Speaker 3:Okay, that's a good answer. It's a good, unique one. How about something you found to be beautiful lately?
Speaker 2:I've seen birds and I've just realized that a lot of birds live on the tree outside my house. I found this to be an incredible experience, also very, very fascinating, because I kind of I wish I knew what they were saying to each other, and I've. Only now, recently, suddenly, I found I find birds fascinating because they have wings and they can fly, they can go anywhere, but they stay in the same place, and this is just something that intrigues me that they don't go. They stay on that same tree every day.
Speaker 3:Wow, well, that's deep, that's very deep, that is. I've never thought about it in that way. Huh, goodness, and I see the kind of like connection with maybe your dad, right, first pointing in the direction of birds. Yeah, wow, well, last but not least, what is something that you've discovered lately that you think everyone should know about? It could be a purchase on Amazon. It could be a show that you're watching, Anything random that you think someone might enjoy.
Speaker 2:I have, of course, I'm 55, but I am now absolutely convinced that the music of the 80s is incredible. If you're very young and you have not listened to Prince and you haven't listened to George Michael and you haven't listened to Whitney Houston, please, please, get this music. Listen to it, because there is something awesome about the music of the 80s. I'm obsessed with that, and it's not just because, of course, it's the soundtrack of my life, but I just think that a lot of younger people have kind of not understood what the 80s were, and I just want them to come listen to this music of the 80s. So it's not something you can buy, but, yes, listen to it. Listen to the music of the 80s.
Speaker 3:That is such a fun one. That's a really good one. Again, I'm not sponsored by Peloton. I probably should at this point. Have you ever ridden before? Have you ever tried a ride?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 2:I have, but I have now been cycling in my own house. I've got a not as fancy as yours, the one behind you, but I have, and I surprised at how good I felt.
Speaker 3:It's amazing.
Speaker 2:My knees feel. Yeah, it does, and I've always been skeptical and I've just recently been cycling and I just, yeah, it actually hurts a lot when you do it and everything aches when you get off. But then after a while you feel really good.
Speaker 3:The one thing about the Peloton I was skeptical for years. My husband was too. We found one on Facebook Marketplace for next to nothing. Someone was selling it, so it was secondhand, and the classes just add so much joy to my day because they're themed. So, like you were saying, they'll have like an eighties ride or you know, for me it's like the early two thousands and it's just so fun. So, as you said that, I was like I'll make my next ride in eighties ride in your honor. Yeah, make your next one an eighties ride. Well, thank you so much again for trusting me with this part of your story. We are so excited about the upcoming release of your book. We will include a link to pre-order if you're listening ahead of the release, or to order whenever you're listening in the show notes. You could buy it there. And where do you want to send people to follow along for more?
Speaker 2:So please follow me on Instagram. I'm Asma Khan, london, because that's where all the monsoon stories come, but also all the stories about life and love and, most importantly, food so good.
Speaker 3:Well, guys, I hope that you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did, and we will see you next week. Thank you, thank you.